Ultimate Axiom

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Posts by Ultimate Axiom

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  74

  Living Through the Brief Liberalization of Jehovah's Witnesses, Never Recovering

  by TMS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.

  we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.

  some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  That period (70-80) was the only period I really knew, as I joined in 70 and left in 80. I didn’t realise until I found this site that things were different during other periods – and I often wonder how I would have handled the crackdowns knowing the elders as I did back then. I was always pretty outspoken, and was often counselled for not being “upbuilding” when I criticised anything in a Watchtower or a book, but I wasn’t the only one and it did not stop us becoming MSs, although I managed to avoid being appointed an elder as by the time I was old enough I was on the way out.

  I remember a great deal of intellectual freedom, and there was quite a group of us younger brothers who would gather and speculate on all sorts of subjects, and no one that I came across regarded the Watchtower as sacrosanct – we would often take apart the odd article without fear of retribution. On one occasion, after the Sunday WTS, an older sister said to me outside the KH, “that was a very deep Watchtower today, wasn’t it?.” “No”, I said, “that was quite a shallow Watchtower, but written extremely badly to make it incomprehensible”. She gave me a bit of a sideways look, and went on her way – and there were no repercussions. I now realise (through this site) that that particular study article must have been the product of Freddie’s fevered imagination.

  Hey crofty, I was at that assembly in Roker Park. Me and a friend rode all the way there from London on our Honda 50s, sleeping in bus shelters and bivwacks on the way as it took us nearly a week to get there. Those bikes didn’t go more than 40 mph, and mine was completely clapped out when I got back. The first thing I remember on getting to Roker Park was being greeted by a friendly young brother and not being able to understand a single word he said – I’d never met a real live Jordie before then.

  I also remember feeling very disappointed after that assembly, thinking that I wouldn’t be old enough to be an elder before Armageddon – I was only 18 at the time. Oh, and by the way, the 69 assembly at Wembley was an International, I missed that as I’d only started studying in Oct/Nov 69.
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  20

  IN HINDSIGHT.................

  by Black Man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now that i've been away from the cult going on 4 years, one huge absurdity that sticks out in my mind is that we were doing things out of service to an invisible king.

  let me repeat an invisible king, whose only proof that he existed was through a global public relations magazine distribution campaign.

  no visible show of this king's sovreignty, no activity by this king to act on his campaign platform.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  What absurdities stand out to you now that you've left the MADNESS??

  The idea that God allowed his creation to be thrown into chaos, evil and darkness to prove Satan was wrong. What a stupid thing to do, and what a stupid thing to swallow?
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  13

  Curiosity may have made 'historic' discovery on Mars

  by wolfman85 in

  1. social
  2. current

  after reading this news on the link below i wonder, what do you think could have found curiosity on mars?.

  http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_curiosity-may-have-made-historic-discovery-on-mars_1767511 .

  curiosity may have made 'historic' discovery on mars published: wednesday, nov 21, 2012, 13:54 ist .

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  Ultimate Axiom

  ???? Ethos - consuming your post allocation so that you don't have to reply to all those outstanding questions??
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  74

  HELP! I've stepped in it now... mast head change - JW response!

  by NeverKnew in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he's asking if i've read the first page of the new watchtower.. says page 8 admits and exposes the society's mistaken expectations.. says that both mags have been adjusted to reflect the understanding of generation.

  asking if it is my position that witnesses have made claims to be inspired prophets.... and saying if it is, maybe *we* can consider together some examples in the bible of others who have had wrong expectations and have gone ahead of god's timetable and see how god handled that..

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  Ultimate Axiom

  You will notice that this “admission” in the January Watchtower starts by asking the question, “Have Jehovah’s Witnesses given incorrect dates for the end?”, and starts the answer with, “Jehovah’s Witnesses have had wrong expectations …” After that, everything is we do this, or we do that - thus making it a collective admission on behalf of all Jehovah’s Witnesses. This is a typical example of the Watchtower Society shifting the blame from the leadership to the R&F. Had they said something like, “The Watchtower has given wrong expectations etc” then I might have some respect for it, but, unlike didgeridoo, I have absolutely no respect at all for this pusillanimous excuse for an admission that admits nothing from those that need to admit, and has not the slightest hint of an apology.
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  20

  Baptizing toddlers while critical of infant baptism

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there are no less than two (watchtower publications) examples where six year old toddlers have been baptized.

  what do you think?.

  len.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  JWs are quite incapable of applying to themselves the “rules” by which they measure other religions, whether it be criticising doctrinal changes, false prophecies, sweeping wrongdoing under the carpet, or child baptism. Such rules do not apply to them because, as NewChapter said, they have the Truth!
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  22

  JW's just called

  by l p in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jws just called.

  they are new to the congregation since i left in 2002/3.. they were offering a dvd for deaf people to 'learn what god requires of me".

  i said there were no deaf people here.. the other guy that was just standing there asked if there were deaf people in this area.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  Jookbeard, you could always go to jw.org and request a bible study....
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  19

  20 Questions

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  let's say there is a new law.. once each year the leader(s) of any religious group have to answer 20 questions in public on tv posed by their critics.. twenty questions are allowed for a one hour presentation.. of course, we would expect softball answers.

  except for one thing: the questioner can press a "bullshit" button!.

  that would mean the question is repeated and another answer was called for.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  If you’ve ever watched a seasoned politician avoid answering a question you’ll know that you will never get an answer from someone who doesn’t want to give one – even when the answer is a simple as yes or no. One of that species of sub-humans managed to avoid answering such a simple question about twenty times in a TV interview before the interviewer gave up with another question, “so you’re not going to answer the question?” but he didn’t get an answer to that one either. Even a bullshit button won’t help, but it’s still interesting to speculate.

  My question would be – In view of the Watchtower’s many failed predictions given in the name of Jehovah, why should we not apply Duet 18:22 to it?
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  22

  JW's just called

  by l p in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jws just called.

  they are new to the congregation since i left in 2002/3.. they were offering a dvd for deaf people to 'learn what god requires of me".

  i said there were no deaf people here.. the other guy that was just standing there asked if there were deaf people in this area.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  Perhaps the WTS just overproduced and have initiated this campaign to unload them.
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  17

  Watchtower CD

  by NeverKnew in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  how does a person (non-jw) outside the organization get this cd the wt publishes?

  how much does it cost?.

  note: i'm not asking how much it's worth.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  If you can't get hold of the CD you can get most of their books from here;

  http://ia600304.us.archive.org/27/items/WatchtowerLibrary/
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  67

  Question?

  by Ethos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first of all i'd like to apologize on behalf of my "college dropout" thread.

  i intimated it as a humorous and somewhat true form of sattire.

  i didn't think people here would take it so seriously and literally.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  Ethos – you have a lot of questions to answer here, so I’ll just repeat the issue that jwfacts has raised, “the ongoing evidence that Holy Spirit is not directing the organisation”. In answering it please explain how an organisation can knowingly misrepresent and lie in attempts to cover over past mistakes? If you need examples use the search facility above, but I would rather not debate examples, just how you can reconcile the lying with "God is Truth".